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11/06/06 19:13
[top-politics] irc
Logs of the #parlement channel on server irc.freenode.net
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07/08/06 06:29
[top-politics] 20060806#parlement
Log opened dim aoû 06 00:00:11 2006- 16:08
!cnloyd (New Now Know How) [n=chatzill@adsl-69-150-34-165.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #parlement - 16:39 < urgen> morning cn
- 16:42 < echarp> good afternoon urgen
- 16:43 < urgen> ya, over there
- 16:46 < cnloyd> Hey
- 16:46 < echarp> hello cnloyd
- 16:47 < cnloyd> Wait, isn’t Urgen in the west USA? It should be early morning over there.
- 16:47 < urgen> I’m about 3/4 way through Rainbow’s End, still quite enjoyable and refreshing
- 16:47 < urgen> yes
- 16:47 < echarp> the world is a small village
- 16:47 < urgen> echarp was afternooning from eu pov
- 16:48 < cnloyd> Cool. I started reading Accelerando at work, but chapter 3 was not safe for work.
- 16:48 < urgen> eep :-)
- 16:48 < cnloyd> I remember echarp being somewhere in central/eastern eu
- 16:48 < cnloyd> It was all text, but I didn’t want to take the chance.
- 16:48 < cnloyd> I started reading an on-line comic, but that became unsafe for work, too!
- 16:48 < cnloyd> GRRR, should stick with paper-based non-fiction.
- 16:49 < echarp> paris here
- 16:49 < urgen> you mean just during your break time, right?
- 16:49 < cnloyd> Reading?
- 16:49 < cnloyd> I read during break, and whenever the drafting software gets bogged down in some task.
- 16:49 < cnloyd> Like, loading aerial photos. That can easily take an hour.
- 16:50 < urgen> they on a mac?
- 16:51 < echarp> urgen: are you speaking from an amercian perspective? where working time is non stop and non fun?
- 16:51 < urgen> I am speaking from a life’s experience of bosses with ‘nose to the grindstone’ philosophy
- 16:52 < urgen> personally, I’d think a fresh mind works much more efficiently
- 16:52 < cnloyd> Windows. Hey, my workplace is full of stopping and fun. The machines get bogged down running a process, and there nothing else to do but throw paper airplanes and socialize.
- 16:53 < echarp> me I spend many hours at the work place, and I tend to use some of my time for personal matters too
- 16:53 < echarp> the opposite is true during the week end
- 16:54 < cnloyd> Agree with urgen. Working non-stop for a four-hour stretch, hour lunch, and then another four hours of work, is OK. Problems come when its 12 hours of non-stop work, working while eating, etc.
- 16:57 < echarp> do you tend to also switch off your personal phone?
- 16:57 < echarp> to not read your own mail?
- 16:58 < urgen> my cell is my work phone, since I’m a consultant
- 16:58 < urgen> and I don’t read personal email at a client’s location
- 16:59 < urgen> I so take calls there, tho
- 17:01 < cnloyd> My phone is on vibrate, but everyone takes personal calls.
- 17:01 < cnloyd> I don’t read mail on my phone, but I do check it at work, as does everyone else.
- 17:02 < echarp> same with me
- 17:02 < echarp> I use my personal computers for work
- 17:05 < cnloyd> Just updated my blog. I don’t think urgen cares, but echarp might.
- 17:05 < urgen> hee
- 17:06 < urgen> blog once meant ‘log of web explorations’ not a newscolumn
- 17:06 < urgen> don’t know how that changed
- 17:06 < cnloyd> “Web Explorations”?
- 17:06 < echarp> cnloyd: where is it?
- 17:06 < urgen> web log
- 17:06 < cnloyd> spacearch.blogspot.com
- 17:06 < urgen> we blog
- 17:07 < urgen> the trail you leave as you scan the net looking for stuff
- 17:07 < urgen> when you found significant things you’d log it
- 17:07 < cnloyd> Well, the w sound in English is fairly week…so it makes sense that weblog becomes just blog.
- 17:07 < urgen> and then, could share that list with others
- 17:07 < cnloyd> Hey, today I shared a highly entertaining
report about Human Space Factors. - 17:07 < cnloyd> I linked a whole damn book.
- 17:11 < echarp> I see it’s a blog all about space
- 17:13 < cnloyd> You actually read it?
- 17:15 < echarp> yeap
- 17:16 < echarp> you space freaks, when do you think we will finally use artificial gravity up there?
- 17:16 < echarp> :)
- 17:16 < echarp> (I also have a degree of mechanical engineering ;)
- 17:16 < cnloyd> When it becomes cheaper than giving astronauts diet supplements and having them on an excercise routine.
- 17:16 < urgen> that cable elevator thing had a setback didn’t it?
- 17:17 * urgen seems to remember something about it in the news
- 17:17 < cnloyd> It did? I haven’t followed recent developments. Been trying to understand it from…a basic (need better word) point of view.
- 17:17 < cnloyd> That is, I want to know more about how the space elevator works.
- 17:17 < echarp> they found ways to manufacture better nano tubes
- 17:18 < cnloyd> Up to a meter long, last I heard.
- 17:18 < echarp> but it’s still far far from the required tensile strength
- 17:18 < cnloyd> Still fragile.
- 17:18 < echarp> but a great research area
- 17:19 < cnloyd> It does look promising. Getting into space cheaply is the first step. Signs that I got into the wrong major a while ago.
- 17:21 < echarp> your major was?
- 17:24 < cnloyd> Architecture.
- 17:24 < cnloyd> Wanted to design buildings.
- 17:30 < echarp> you have to design moon buildings then ;)
- 17:30 < cnloyd> Echarp: live within or outside Periphique (misspelled, I know)
- 17:30 < cnloyd> Moon is hard. Harder than Mars.
- 17:30 < cnloyd> Moon has glass shards as “dirt”
- 17:30 < cnloyd> Gets in everything.
- 17:30 < cnloyd> No radiation protection, unless you go underground.
- 17:31 < echarp> I live inside the périphérique
- 17:31 < echarp> “intra muros”
- 17:31 < cnloyd> Which means digging through dozens of meters of glass shard dirt.
- 17:31 < cnloyd> Cool. I spent three days in Paris in 2002. Slept at a hotel on Rue d’Amsterdam.
- 17:31 < cnloyd> Near Gar du Nord (?)
- 17:31 < cnloyd> And Palais Garnier.
- 17:33 < echarp> I’m not very far to the eiffel tower
- 17:34 < echarp> digging would be very hard?
- 17:35 < echarp> and is it really required?
- 17:36 < cnloyd> For Radiation protection, yeah.
- 17:36 < cnloyd> Or, piling a whole bunch of dirt on top of the building.
- 17:37 < cnloyd> You want to shield as much Gamma Radaition as possible.
- 17:37 < cnloyd> The Van Allen Belts and atmosphere do the job for humans on Earth.
- 17:37 < cnloyd> Moon has neither Van Allen Belts or atmosphere.
- 17:38 < echarp> any chance to, one day, use some kind of man made magnetic shielding?
- 17:38 < echarp> a big magnet underneath the building :)
- 17:38 < cnloyd> You’re also totally exposed to Corona Mass Ejections.
- 17:38 < cnloyd> …to create an artificial Van Allen Belt?
- 17:38 < echarp> of sorts
- 17:39 < echarp> I don’t the nature of that belt, I know it generates a sink at the poles, which create beautiful outbursts
- 17:39 < cnloyd> Auroura
- 17:39 < cnloyd> Often seen following a CME.
- 17:40 < cnloyd> Moon doesn’t have that, although shielding from CMEs is much easier than shielding from GCR.
- 17:40 < cnloyd> Shielding from GCR is do-able, at all, on Moon and Mars.
- 17:41 < cnloyd> Currently not so out in space.
- 17:41 < cnloyd> Unless you packed a whole bunch of lead out the outside of your ship.
- 17:41 < echarp> yeap, 50 rems per year ;)
- 17:41 < echarp> can’t use water either?
- 17:41 < cnloyd> Water useful for CME.
- 17:41 < cnloyd> Blocks the beta radiation.
- 17:41 < cnloyd> Gamma passes through almost everything.
- 17:42 < cnloyd> And, even better, it ionizes.
- 17:42 < cnloyd> And sends out more radiation from whatever object got ionized.
- 17:42 < cnloyd> It’s raining radiation right now on us.
- 17:42 < cnloyd> But, we humans have always lived thus.
- 17:42 < echarp> how many rem do we get right now?
- 17:42 * urgen out
- 17:42 < cnloyd> Depends on where you live.
- 17:43 < cnloyd> I get about 1.1 or so in Houston.
- 17:43 < cnloyd> American average is about 1.0
- 17:43 < echarp> I know that those radiations can do all kinds of tricks
- 17:43 < cnloyd> Parts of Italy and Iran get 5 or so.
- 17:46 < cnloyd> People who live in the Ural Mountains get 500 mSv.
- 17:48 < cnloyd> Which is about 5 rem.
- 17:48 < cnloyd> I had my units mixed up.
- 17:48 < cnloyd> 1.1 mSv in Houston is like 0.011 rem
- 17:48 < cnloyd> Radiation is tricky. Sometimes helpful, sometimes not.
- 17:49 < echarp> plus it can have or not consequences
- 17:49 < echarp> the skin can be thick :)
- 17:50 < cnloyd> That’s right. Not everyone at Chernobyl got cancer.
- 17:51 < cnloyd> I’m going to watch so more of a video about radiation.
- 17:51 < echarp> that’s one example
- 17:51 < echarp> and what about medical research to diminish the consequence?
- 17:57 < cnloyd> Little that I’m aware of. Sometimes cells detect defective/damage cells, and kill them off, before they reproduce without limits.
- 17:59 < cnloyd> I need to go. Will be back later, though I will be away from the computer much of the time. Nice talking to you. Hope to talk further later this day 6 August, which should still be your evening.
- 17:59
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!cnloyd (New Now Know How) [n=chatzill@adsl-69-150-34-165.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #parlement - 21:11 < cnloyd:#parlement> Hello, everyone.
- 21:12 < cnloyd:#parlement> The sun is setting by now, in Paris.
- 21:12 < cnloyd:#parlement> Lunchtime in California.
- 21:27
!Irssi: You are now talking in #parlement - 21:27 < echarp> hello cnloyd
- 21:27 < cnloyd> Hi. Is Paris still under a heat wave? It’s usually in the 30s C here.
- 21:28 < echarp> the heat wave was last week
- 21:28 < echarp> those last days have in fact been quite chilly
- 21:31 < cnloyd> July and August are usually the hottest time of year. Is the city still under a vacation/holiday?
- 21:35 < echarp> definitely
- 21:35 < echarp> august is peculiar in france, it’s the period when most are on vacation
- 21:35 < echarp> paris is all the better without all those stressed parisians :)
- 21:35 < echarp> pesky parisians!
- 21:39 < cnloyd> You’re not from Paris yourself?
- 21:39 < cnloyd> Originally, I mean.
- 21:43 < echarp> countryside
- 21:43 < echarp> I’m originally a peasant
- 21:48 < cnloyd> France still has peasants? The US lost its peasantry class during the Great Depression and World War II.
- 21:49 < echarp> huge number of farmers here yes
- 21:49 < echarp> heavily subsidised of course
- 21:49 < cnloyd> Family-owned? Not Corporate?
- 21:49 < echarp> family
- 21:49 < echarp> the old kind, tens of hectares each
- 21:49 < echarp> nothing like the US corporations
- 21:51 < cnloyd> Farming entered a depression in the US back in the 1920s. Some might argue that it is still under a depression.
- 21:52 < echarp> anyway, us rich countries, it’s only our subsidies which destroy the agricultural world free market
- 21:52 < cnloyd> Food production is so cheap now, that subsidies only aggravate what would happen anyway.
- 21:53 < echarp> they make sure third world countries can’t compete
- 21:54 < cnloyd> Third world countries would have a hard time anyway. It’s not like being a subsistence farmer in the US is easy either.
- 21:55 < echarp> they could actually sell on the world market
- 21:55 < echarp> while the subsidies make it so we sell them what they ought to sell us
- 21:58 < cnloyd> No one had ought to sell anyone anything.
- 22:01 < echarp> you mean, no free market?
- 22:01 < cnloyd> I mean, one can sell what one wants to, but no one should be compelled into selling.
- 22:01 < cnloyd> In an ideal setting.
- 22:02 < cnloyd> The third world should not be compelled to sell its agricultural products to the US.
- 22:02 < echarp> well, it’s an interconnected small planet nowadays
- 22:03 < echarp> and many economies can not stand on their own
- 22:03 < cnloyd> It’s been thus for centuries. The Romans got their silk from somewhere.
- 22:03 < echarp> particularly after centuries of slavery and colonisation :(
- 22:04 < cnloyd> No economy can be isolated (ex, North Korea)
- 22:04 < echarp> I agree
- 22:04 < echarp> well, it can/could be, but it’s not very interesting
- 22:05 < cnloyd> One can also say that the economy of Earth is isolated from any other planets that may have its own economy.
- 22:05 < echarp> :)
- 22:05 < echarp> true
- 22:06 < cnloyd> I’ve hung around people who think that economy == everything about a society, and their ideas are sterile and immobile.
- 22:06 < echarp> culture is more important in my eyes
- 22:06 < echarp> economy being merely the science of choice
- 22:07 < cnloyd> Economy can indicate what people value in inaminate objects (food, cars, real estate), but then some people cannot comprehend things like the Wikipedia.
- 22:07 < cnloyd> People doing work, creating value, and asking for almost nothing in return.
- 22:08 < echarp> we are, maybe, getting in a gift economy
- 22:08 < echarp> I would love love love that!
- 22:08 < echarp> no more thinking in scarcity terms
- 22:08 < echarp> no more stupid consumerism
- 22:08 < cnloyd> Which scares some people. I have a friend who works in video, and people are creating their own videos. He has trouble finding work, and thinks that the quality of video will go down. I say, “If people cannot see quality, then what does it matter that it goes down?”
- 22:09 < echarp> exactly!
- 22:09 < cnloyd> Find the people who DO seek quality, and deal with them directly.
- 22:09 < echarp> there are six billions people, quality will emerge
- 22:10 < cnloyd> It’s the same in architecture. 99.9% of people don’t care about the quality of their houses. Find the 0.1% who DO.
- 22:11 < cnloyd> On a lighter note: “Coup de Boule” is becoming popular in the US.
- 22:11 < echarp> and even if it is 0.0001% who do, it’s still a lot
- 22:11 < cnloyd> Thanks France.
- 22:11 < echarp> lol
- 22:11 < echarp> vive zidane! :)
- 22:12 < echarp> do you actually speak about that head butt?
- 22:12 < cnloyd> Yes. People watch the video of Zidane knocking the guy down, over and over.
- 22:12 < cnloyd> They think it’s funny.
- 22:12 < cnloyd> French culture can enter the US. It just has to be as dumb as the US culture!
- 22:13 < echarp> lol
- 22:13 < echarp> have no worry, we can compete with anything US, we can try anyway!
- 22:14 < echarp> zidane will probably go down in history for his personality, and that gesture
- 22:14 < echarp> quite an end to a carreer
- 22:15 < cnloyd> Soccer may never become that popular here in the states. It has to compete with the ANNUAL SUPER FABULOUS EXTRAVAGANZA MARKETING FANDAGO FUN FUN FUN TIME known as the Super Bowl.
- 22:16 < cnloyd> It’s up there with Christmas and the 4th of July.
- 22:17 < cnloyd> Imagine an annual World Cup, compressed into a six-hour period.
- 22:17 < echarp> and you had such a great game, base ball!
- 22:17 < cnloyd> It’s OK.
- 22:17 < cnloyd> It’s more of a northeastern game.
- 22:17 < cnloyd> Yankees, Sox, etc. These are industrial city teams.
- 22:17 < echarp> anyway, getting so passionated on what are just games, is probably too much
- 22:18 < cnloyd> A symptom in the decline of religion?
- 22:18 < echarp> if only!
- 22:18 < echarp> a consequence to the international treaties which allow one to own “videos”
- 22:18 < cnloyd> Bah. That’s why I stopped watching the Olympics.
- 22:18 < echarp> you own, you restrict, image can become an incredible merchandise
- 22:19 < echarp> olympics are supposedly amateur
- 22:19 < cnloyd> Couldn’t watch German TV during the Olympics, or the World Cup.
- 22:19 < cnloyd> I refuse to watch Olympics.
- 22:21 < echarp> I don’t refuse, I mostly am not much interested
- 22:21 < echarp> I’d rather watch great documentaries showing the impact of games on the world :)
- 22:22 < cnloyd> I’d rather watch anime about people who vie for political power, and how they try to get it.
- 22:23 < echarp> south park? :)
- 22:24 < cnloyd> Er, sometimes. “Legends of Galactic Heroes” is what I watch currently.
- 22:24 * echarp doesn’t know that one
- 22:24 < echarp> SF?
- 22:24 < cnloyd> Yeah, but it was made the late-1980s.
- 22:25 < cnloyd> Technology is not the issue. Centuries-long warfare is.
- 22:25 < cnloyd> Society is frozen in a sort of very late Cold War mindset.
- 22:26 < echarp> strange that I haven’t heard of it!
- 22:26 < echarp> I’d love to get some of the US channels over here
- 22:27 < cnloyd> It’s Japanese, not American. You have to download it. The best US channels, in my opinion, are The Weather Channel, the Sci-Fi Channel, Discovery, History, and USA.
- 22:31 < echarp> undertones of star wars?
- 22:31 < cnloyd> Not really. More like the Hundred Years War, or the Russian-Japanese War of 1905. In space.
- 22:32 < cnloyd> One side is like Germany in the 1890s. The other side is like the Soviet Union in the 1980s.
- 22:32 < cnloyd> Equal technology.
- 22:32 < cnloyd> But different cultures.
- 22:34 < echarp> downloading right now ;)
- 22:38 < cnloyd> Warning. It’s very talky.
- 22:38 < cnloyd> But you seem like a smart guy, so that shouldn’t bother you.
- 22:38 < echarp> :)
- 22:39 < echarp> hopefully it’s not in japanese :)
- 22:43 < cnloyd> The audio is, but the subtitles are in English.
-Log closed lun aoû 07 00:00:11 2006
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+1
New discussion
Answer
- 16:08
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24/02/10 10:25
+1
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08/09/06 06:30
[top-politics] 20060907#parlement
Log opened jeu sep 07 00:00:17 2006
Log closed jeu sep 07 01:35:55 2006
Log opened jeu sep 07 01:49:56 2006- 01:49
!echarp [n=33M002Pa@m96.net81-66-133.noos.fr] has joined #parlement - 01:49
!Topic for #parlement: http://leparlement.org - 01:49
!Topic set by echarp [] [Mon Jul 24 00:20:56 2006] - 01:49 [Users #parlement]
- 01:49 [ echarp] [ nsh_] [ parlebot] [ urgen]
- 01:49
!Irssi: #parlement: Total of 4 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 4 normal] - 01:50
!Channel #parlement created Fri Jul 21 18:39:21 2006 - 01:50
!Irssi: You are now talking in #parlement - 01:50
!Irssi: Join to #parlement was synced in 46 secs - 04:51
!illegal (irc.freenode.net) [n=illegale@cmung606.cmu.carnet.hr] has joined #parlement - 04:52 < urgen> re
- 04:52 < illegal> oi
- 04:53 < urgen> I just installed the collaborative editor mattis uses
- 04:53 < illegal> matis uses?
- 04:53 < urgen> gobby
- 04:53 < illegal> some wki stuff?
- 04:53 < illegal> you mentioned yesterday?
- 04:53 < urgen> it is like irc but records all keystroke
- 04:53 < urgen> ya same
- 04:53 < illegal> al keysrteoke?
- 04:53 < urgen> people type on the same document
- 04:54 < illegal> you find it usefull?
- 04:54 < illegal> what is difference to wiki?
- 04:54 < urgen> I could erase your word but the document would record that change
- 04:54 < urgen> it is live
- 04:54 < urgen> like irc
- 04:54 < illegal> hmh
- 04:54 < illegal> no need to edit and save, just online?
- 04:54 < urgen> it is a little bit tricky to install
- 04:54 < urgen> you can edit and save still
- 04:54 < illegal> it has differenct use to wiki?
- 04:54 < illegal> simmilar but differnet?
- 04:55 < urgen> you can send finished document to wiki if you wanted to
- 04:55 < urgen> wiki is a static page
- 04:55 < illegal> ok
- 04:55 < illegal> i get it
- 04:55 < illegal> transparent?
- 04:55 < illegal> open?
- 04:55 < illegal> top?
- 04:55 < urgen> yes
- 04:55 < illegal> cool
- 04:55 < illegal> :)
- 04:55 < urgen> it has a nice audit trail
- 04:55 < illegal> hm
- 04:55 < urgen> each participant has a color
- 04:56 < urgen> and the words they type show up in that color
- 04:56 < illegal> nice
- 04:56 < illegal> you gona use it’
- 04:56 < illegal> ?
- 04:56 < urgen> you can play back all the changes, it would show any edit made at any time and what was changed
- 04:56 < urgen> we were using other similar software before but that wasn’t open source
- 04:57 < illegal> who we?
- 04:57 < urgen> mattis’ group
- 04:57 < illegal> mattis group?
- 04:57 < urgen> I’ve participated a few times
- 04:57 < illegal> whatz ghav you done?
- 04:57 < illegal> what have you done?
- 04:57 < urgen> http://ting.sheep.art.pl/live.cgi
- 04:57 < illegal> that is?
- 04:58 < urgen> it is like you get a chance to introduce ideas for how a collaborative effort might happen
- 04:58 < urgen> and then the group decides how to make that real
- 04:58 < urgen> the ting.sheep is a record of the last meeting
- 04:58 < urgen> you can see the names of the people that participated at the top
- 04:58 < illegal> ur: It is Wed. I’m all alone here. Not a ting day but maybe the idea of a
- 04:58 < illegal> perma-ting could be considered again. Finally found a moment to untangle my
- 04:58 < illegal> previous efforts of having an Gobby working and seem to find 0.4.0rc4 working
- 04:58 < illegal> satisfactry.
- 04:58 < illegal> :)
- 04:58 < illegal> might beinterestng
- 04:59 < urgen> I spelled satisfactorally wrong…
- 04:59 < urgen> probably spelled it wrong again :-)
- 04:59 < urgen> so the document needs a spell checker
- 04:59 < illegal> i am not an expert you know :D
- 05:00 < illegal> when you install it, you can call me to use it with you
- 05:00 < illegal> id like to test it aslo
- 05:00 < illegal> also
- 05:00 < urgen> another ting is tomorrow
- 05:00 < urgen> I just installed this today to test
- 05:00 < illegal> yes
- 05:01 < urgen> the document I wrote on was started sunday
- 05:01 < urgen> I might not be around for the ting tomorrow
- 05:01 < illegal> no problem
- 05:01 < illegal> not in hurry
- 05:01 < urgen> they also use teamspeak
- 05:01 < illegal> i have to work some stuff for my college anyway
- 05:01 < urgen> a voice option
- 05:01 < illegal> what is that?
- 05:01 < illegal> ok
- 05:01 < illegal> what does it mean?
- 05:02 < urgen> like a conference call for telephone only over the internet
- 05:02 < urgen> it has a push to talk feature so people don’t try to talk at the same time
- 05:02 < illegal> all to all?
- 05:02 < urgen> yes
- 05:03 < urgen> works well with even low bandwidth
- 05:03 < illegal> working fine?
- 05:03 < urgen> instructions for gobby install: http://darcs.0×539.de/trac/obby/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/wiki/InstallationGuide
- 05:03 < urgen> three steps
- 05:03 < illegal> ok,ok
- 05:03 < urgen> ting uses 0.4.0rc4
- 05:04 < urgen> this is all pretty experimental
- 05:04 < illegal> http://www.farmakologija.com/ankete/gale/anketa.html
- 05:04 < illegal> you did finished it
- 05:04 < illegal> ?
- 05:04 < illegal> gobby is in experimental stagE?
- 05:05 < urgen> is there a translator for that page?
- 05:05 < illegal> btw looking for top politics in google, it is far, far , far away
- 05:05 < illegal> lol
- 05:05 < illegal> I was just kidding
- 05:05 < illegal> asked echarp to fulfill it
- 05:05 < illegal> he did not want to do that
- 05:05 < illegal> that is my french made
- 05:05 < illegal> bla
- 05:05 < illegal> h
- 05:06 < illegal> http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.asp?order=A
- 05:07 < illegal> http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.asp?ID=D000000076&Name=AT%26T+Inc
- 05:07 < illegal> cool
- 05:07 < urgen> ya
- 05:07 < urgen> good to see where the money is going
- 05:08 < illegal> funny to see reps 55
- 05:08 < illegal> dems 45
- 05:08 < illegal> that is the key difference
- 05:08 < urgen> money usually wins
- 05:08 < urgen> it is sad people can be so easily bought
- 05:08 < illegal> not al
- 05:08 < illegal> l
- 05:09 < urgen> yes, not all
- 05:09 < illegal> some say it is all in pasion
- 05:09 < urgen> whim
- 05:09 < illegal> what pasionates you the most, you become its servant
- 05:09 < illegal> money, women, revolution, wehatever
- 05:09 < illegal> religion, drugs
- 05:09 < illegal> rocknroll
- 05:10 < illegal> this top politics group is rather vivid
- 05:10 < illegal> in the same time it is maybe at tenth page on google search
- 05:10 < illegal> what to do?
- 05:11 < urgen> establish authority within community
- 05:11 < urgen> be where people look
- 05:11 < illegal> what do you mean?
- 05:11 < illegal> This Serge guy is as I am talking :)
- 05:11 < urgen> that means you have to supply the terms that communicate the position to be indexed under
- 05:11 < illegal> maybe even better
- 05:12 < illegal> you mean get the same dictionary?
- 05:12 < urgen> we have:
- 05:12 < urgen> 1. what a robot sees on the page
- 05:12 < urgen> 2. what words people use to find what they want
- 05:12 < urgen> 3. what words you think you want
- 05:13 < urgen> 4. a blend of the above three after submitting them to keyword and keyphrase suggestion tools
- 05:13 < urgen> it will find the best relattionship and give you back words to put on the page
- 05:13 < urgen> it is up to you to wrap meaningful text around those words
- 05:14 < urgen> this is how a googlebot files you in the place you want to be found under
- 05:14 < illegal> huh, it is rather late
- 05:14 < urgen> with precision you alway get #1
- 05:14 < urgen> clarity wins
- 05:14 < illegal> you can help with that?
- 05:15 < illegal> clarification?
- 05:15 < urgen> I’m trying to build a way to automate the process
- 05:15 < urgen> make it easy
- 05:15 < illegal> i mean in easy peasant way?
- 05:15 < urgen> yes
- 05:15 < urgen> you can always adjust as you go
- 05:15 < illegal> glad to see that
- 05:15 < urgen> in case the first efforts were better but still not close
- 05:16 < urgen> plus the index always moves
- 05:16 < illegal> btw, i can not follow mails any more
- 05:16 < illegal> at top politics
- 05:16 < urgen> other people are trying to influence the results at the same time
- 05:16 < illegal> maybe we should get some new tool rather fast
- 05:16 < urgen> :-)
- 05:16 < urgen> ok
- 05:16 < illegal> there is the problem with this top politics
- 05:16 < illegal> you think your suggestion might move it to top?
- 05:17 < illegal> when i write top politics to get it at the first page?
- 05:17 < urgen> I’m still pretty busy but I am starting to see enough time to dedicate to information organization and coordination tools
- 05:17 < illegal> it is a battle between 200 000 000 you know
- 05:17 < urgen> most of the others are not precise
- 05:17 < urgen> it is still pretty easy to move to the first page
- 05:18 < illegal> maybe we should create some project in order to move there
- 05:18 < illegal> it could ve usefull
- 05:18 < urgen> it is something that everyone needs to learn
- 05:18 < illegal> not could but would
- 05:18 < urgen> the internet is not a telephone book
- 05:18 < illegal> yes
- 05:18 < illegal> you are experienced in that?
- 05:18 < urgen> yes
- 05:18 < illegal> seems like you are into that for a long time
- 05:18 < urgen> it is part of how I earn a living
- 05:18 < illegal> cool
- 05:19 < illegal> gonna go
- 05:19 < urgen> ok
- 05:19 < illegal> cu later
- 05:19
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- 14:23 < illegal:#parlement> echarp
- 14:24
!Irssi: You are now talking in #parlement - 14:24 < echarp> hello hello illegal
- 14:24 < echarp> how are you?
- 14:24 < illegal> for love, war and stupid dialouges you ned two, you know
- 14:24 < illegal> fine, thanks :)
- 14:24 < echarp> stupid dialogues? :)
- 14:24 < illegal> khm, yes
- 14:25 < echarp> with mark of course?
- 14:25 < illegal> yes
- 14:25 < echarp> you want to take sides?
- 14:26 < illegal> few days ago there was a guy expeld from joiiot
- 14:26 < echarp> oh
- 14:26 < illegal> instead of ignoring him, they started bitching him
- 14:26 < illegal> in that moment i did not recogniye any more who is who
- 14:26 < illegal> yet, he was kicked
- 14:27 < illegal> due to big numbers principle
- 14:27 < echarp> because this was becoming disruptive?
- 14:27 < illegal> disruptivE?
- 14:27 < echarp> to disrupt, to create chaos
- 14:27 < illegal> yes
- 14:28 < illegal> no production
- 14:28 < illegal> no forward
- 14:28 < illegal> just loosing time
- 14:28 < echarp> I understand that
- 14:28 < illegal> and engaging energy in shallow work
- 14:28 < illegal> id like to ask mark why is he doing that
- 14:28 < illegal> id like to ask you why you are doing that?
- 14:28 < illegal> i do not understand
- 14:29 < illegal> i mean, i do it sometimes too
- 14:29 < illegal> clearing my vettiles
- 14:29 < echarp> calling him a prick? or do you have anything else in mind?
- 14:29 < illegal> the whole communication process
- 14:29 < echarp> an elitist prick :)
- 14:29 < illegal> heh
- 14:29 < illegal> e
- 14:29 < illegal> :O=
- 14:30 < echarp> you actually think I should just not speak with him as I did for a while?
- 14:30 < illegal> i think you can speak with him only when you are making deal for moving on, yet i have not noticed you have touching points for any collaboration in this very time
- 14:31 < echarp> there is no hint of any possibility of collaboration
- 14:31 < illegal> all other stuff leads to pricking
- 14:31 < illegal> so, what is the point than
- 14:31 < illegal> loosing ventiles?
- 14:31 < illegal> i think that is what mark actually does
- 14:31 < echarp> trying yet one more time to get some sense into him
- 14:31 < illegal> look for sense into you
- 14:32 < echarp> “loosing ventiles” mean???
- 14:32 < illegal> getting tension off
- 14:32 < illegal> as after doing sports
- 14:32 < echarp> I believe I have sense, but do not hesitate to point out my mistakes
- 14:32 < illegal> you loose your energy
- 14:32 < illegal> you are tired
- 14:32 < echarp> I don’t have a job ;)
- 14:32 < illegal> you do not make sense when fighting mark at all
- 14:32 < illegal> it is non productive by default
- 14:33 < illegal> lol
- 14:33 < illegal> so, that must be it
- 14:33 < illegal> :=
- 14:33 < illegal> )
- 14:33 < illegal> you think mark has no job eithrŠ?
- 14:33 < echarp> then I won’t speak with that elitist prick anymore
- 14:33 < echarp> fine by me, the guy is an incredible mess
- 14:33 < illegal> that is fine solution also
- 14:33 < illegal> imo
- 14:33 < echarp> it is for me too
- 14:34 < illegal> mark needs dodge monkey fuel
- 14:34 < echarp> I mostly responded because “he” wanted to talk
- 14:34 < illegal> no, i find him and me be pretty simmilar you know
- 14:34 < illegal> you will do hima a favour if you stop doin that
- 14:34 < illegal> i got a go
- 14:35 < illegal> cu
- 14:35 < echarp> cu
- 14:35 < illegal> ps. share some round when you get a job!
- 14:35
!illegal [n=illegale@cmung2727.cmu.carnet.hr] has quit [] - 14:35 < echarp> I hope you are not “too” similar
- 18:04 < urgyen> <mattis^> ting 76 (global online session on collab-editor gobby) today at 18:00 UTC – that’s in about four hours http://ting.sheep.art.pl/wiki/Ting76
- 18:14
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!urgen (urgy) [i=urgy@c-67-188-71-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #parlement - 18:18 < echarp> I’ll be outside
- 18:55 < urgen> echarp try to join the ting
- 18:55 < urgen> (when you get back)
- 20:08
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08/09/06 16:05
just to say I definitly didn’t find the top politics group through google. Can’t remember how though.
My search terms when trying to get an idea for what efforts were under way were:
e democracy, open democracy, direct democracy, participatory democracy. Also I’ll agree with Gale that the interaction between Mark and Emmanuel doesn’t seem productive at all right now, but I have to say that what Mark advocates in terms of system can be quite an addition to the debate, in the sense that his system retains a measure of representative democracy and therefore could be seen as an intermediary step towards (and as such, easier to build consensus for) more direct forms of democracy.Regards,
Serge
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08/09/06 16:46
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 02:05:05PM -0000, Serge wrote:
Also I’ll agree with Gale that the interaction between Mark andEmmanuel doesn’t seem productive at all right now, but I have to saythat what Mark advocates in terms of system can be quite an addition tothe debate, in the sense that his system retains a measure ofrepresentative democracy and therefore could be seen as an intermediarystep towards (and as such, easier to build consensus for) more directforms of democracy.
If I may ask, what do you consider is an addition?Isn’t DP also a mix of direct and representative democracy? But one which encourage participation and responsibility of everybody and not just a few directors?
echarp
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08/09/06 23:14
Serge wrote:
just to say I definitly didn’t find the top politics group throughgoogle. Can’t remember how though.My search terms when trying to get an idea for what efforts were underway were:e democracy, open democracy, direct democracy, participatory democracy.
Thank you very much Serge for your suggestions. I believe this aspect of group marketing is rather important if we want to rise significance of this place. If I remember properly, expertise site I am working on right not pharmacy gains over 70% of new visitors through google during some months.
Also I’ll agree with Gale that the interaction between Mark andEmmanuel doesn’t seem productive at all right now, but I have to saythat what Mark advocates in terms of system can be quite an addition tothe debate, in the sense that his system retains a measure ofrepresentative democracy and therefore could be seen as an intermediarystep towards (and as such, easier to build consensus for) more directforms of democracy.
I do believe for a while that step by step aproach is the best one as long as that is grounded, foolproof. This actually means that either of suggested mechanisms of network measuring need a place or group of people that can be counted in hunders or maybe even thousands to see how do they actually workand how usefull it is in RL. Before that moment, we are actually not talking about facts, but expectations which is much less solid and interesting for third party who is actually essential to make any of these systems strong enough to become part of real world politics.
ATB,
GaleRegards,Serge
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09/09/06 00:06
Hi Emmanuel, hi Gale,
Yep do agree on the need to implement and test, came out looking for what could be implemented and how, rather than just for the debate - even though it is interesting for me as I am new to the group to get a better prospective of what each envisions practically.
Emmanuel, what I meant was that in Mark’s system there is also Delegable Proxy (and the other mechanisms everyone pretty much agrees would be beneficial), but that it retains a part of what the old system was made of (as in, purely representative,
one-ballot-every-5-years-style traditional RD), and therefore would constitute a safety net of sorts for these doubting the efficiency of a DP-only system.
Basically it would act as an argument allowing to overcome the age-old “it’s never gonna work, too risky, why should we change a system that works, etc”. Therefore, people unwilling to try the system would still be represented the old way should they prefer to – and that would allow to neither negate their voting rights nor prevent the implementation of a progressive system for these willing to give it a go.regards,
Serge
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09/09/06 01:17
Emmanuel, what I meant was that in Mark’s system there is alsoDelegable Proxy (and the other mechanisms everyone pretty much agreeswould be beneficial), but that it retains a part of what the old systemwas made of (as in, purely representative,one-ballot-every-5-years-style traditional RD), and therefore wouldconstitute a safety net of sorts for these doubting the efficiency of aDP-only system.
As far as I can tell, there is no “old system” retained anywhere.
Me I also propose permanent voting, until outside conditions render the vote meaningless. Not only that, but electoral lists freely maintained by anybody who feel like it. Institutions could use existing real life one, with public PGP keys for voter identification.
echarp
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09/09/06 03:14
echarp wrote:
Emmanuel, what I meant was that in Mark’s system there is alsoDelegable Proxy (and the other mechanisms everyone pretty much agreeswould be beneficial), but that it retains a part of what the old systemwas made of (as in, purely representative, one-ballot-every-5-years-style traditional RD), and therefore would constitute a safety net of sorts for these doubting the efficiency of a DP-only system.
ec: As far as I can tell, there is no “old system” retained anywhere.
-M: Its in the default hierarchy: delegate/specialist > trustee/generalist > algorithm-selecteePeople would be encouraged to vote for specialists, but if they don’t, then their last generalist-trustees would be used. This is RD.
ec: Me I also propose permanent voting, until outside conditions render thevote meaningless.
-M: Yup.
ec: Not only that, but electoral lists freely maintained by anybody who feel like it.
-M: With SD2-S, voter list = electorial list. And if someone doesn’t want to serve, then a lower (politicly)ranked person is selected.
shanti
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09/09/06 03:14
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09/09/06 01:17
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09/09/06 00:06
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08/09/06 16:46
- 01:49
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05/03/07 07:38
I use mIRC f0r IRC but not able to find irc.freenode.net. Is it still there and is it being used? eggy
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[top-politics] 20061226#parlement
Log opened mar déc 26 00:00:57 2006- 22:58
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[top-politics] 20061225#parlement
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!Irssi: You are now talking in #parlement - 19:42 < echarp> merry christmass
-Log closed mar déc 26 00:00:57 2006
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[top-politics] 20061224#parlement
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[top-politics] 20061223#parlement
Log opened sam déc 23 00:00:57 2006- 05:58
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- 18:42 < urgyen:#parlement> hi
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[top-politics] 20061222#parlement
Log opened ven déc 22 00:00:57 2006- 01:00
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!titemagli (gaim) [n=librisof@AMontsouris-153-1-26-80.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #parlement - 10:53 < titemagli:#parlement> hello !
- 10:57
!Irssi: You are now talking in #parlement - 10:57 < echarp> coucou titemagli
- 10:57 < echarp> how are you?
- 11:02 < titemagli> i m fine thanks
- 11:02 < titemagli> and you ?
- 11:03 < echarp> great
- 11:03 < echarp> learning some new things everyday
- 11:03 < echarp> seam looks nice, but the whole jBoss stack is rather complex
- 11:03 < echarp> (this is architectural stuff ;)
- 11:22 < echarp> what do you think of the channels list titemagli ?
- 11:53 < titemagli> very long
- 13:06
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!nsh (No Such Human) [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #parlement-Log closed sam déc 23 00:00:57 2006
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+1
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Answer
- 01:00
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22/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061221#parlement
Log opened jeu déc 21 00:00:57 2006- 18:15
!Irssi: You are now talking in #parlement-Log closed ven déc 22 00:00:57 2006
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+1
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Answer
- 18:15
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21/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061220#parlement
Log opened mer déc 20 00:00:55 2006- 00:32 < echarp> ok, it’s late very late
- 00:32 < echarp> good night
- 00:35 < gale> cu
- 00:35
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!nsh_ is now known as nsh-Log closed jeu déc 21 00:00:57 2006
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+1
New discussion
Answer
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20/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061219#parlement
Log opened mar déc 19 00:00:58 2006- 22:56
!gale (gale) [n=g@89-172-18-27.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #parlement - 22:56 < gale:#parlement> io
- 23:15
!Irssi: You are now talking in #parlement - 23:15 < echarp> hello hello
- 23:18 < gale> hey e!
- 23:19 < gale> still there’
- 23:19 < gale> ?
- 23:22 < echarp> of course
- 23:22 < echarp> always
- 23:23 < gale> hmh
- 23:23 < gale> whassa?
- 23:24 < echarp> nothing much
- 23:24 < echarp> parlement 0.10 as you saw on the mailing list
- 23:24 < echarp> and xmass coming up, of course
- 23:24 < echarp> and you?
- 23:41 < gale> finished school, looking for job
- 23:41 < gale> got new computer and stuff
- 23:41 < gale> playing games
- 23:41 < gale> :)
- 23:42 < echarp> what kind?
- 23:43 < gale> cod2
- 23:43 < gale> toka race driver
- 23:43 < gale> frp and stuff did not make me hot
- 23:45 < echarp> I don’t know
- 23:45 < echarp> never heard
- 23:45 < gale> call of duty
- 23:45 < gale> heard of it?
- 23:45 < gale> cool multiplayer game
- 23:46 < gale> ww2 scenario
- 23:46 < echarp> nice
- 23:46 < gale> very realistic
- 23:46 < echarp> I’ve seen yes
- 23:46 < gale> i got wheel
- 23:46 < echarp> but it’s just too much time for me
- 23:46 < gale> so playing races is really cool
- 23:46 < echarp> I prefer coding, or crossword with my girl friend
- 23:46 < gale> you are weird
- 23:46 < echarp> coding is great, it’s fun, like legos for a kid
- 23:47 < gale> kidding
- 23:47 < gale> yet, missed 3d stuff for a while
- 23:47 < gale> had 4mb graphic card with no 3d accepelater
- 23:47 < gale> and now i have to see how far did stuff go in a meantime
- 23:47 < gale> and indeed it wean very facr
- 23:48 < gale> when you look that driving game it is almost like tv
- 23:48 < gale> 7600 gt graphic card solves many problems
- 23:48 < echarp> realism is great
- 23:48 < gale> i like
- 23:48 < echarp> but I expect wii to be even better although less realist
- 23:48 < gale> cod2?
- 23:49 < gale> wii?
- 23:49 < echarp> wii is the nintendo console
- 23:49 < gale> ok
- 23:50 < gale> when you race it is as you drive real car
- 23:50 < gale> feel fine difference between renault clio v6 and subaru impreza or some old 30s fromula
- 23:50 < gale> it gives you different mood
- 23:51 < gale> and you really have to feel the car if you want to race it as long as you easily loose control
- 23:51 < gale> btw, you boughth new computer?
- 23:51 < echarp> not yet no
- 23:52 < gale> oh yes
- 23:52 < gale> friend who si porogramming as you do
- 23:52 < gale> and is not into games
- 23:52 < gale> who played descent 2 last time
- 23:52 < gale> was amased
- 23:52 < gale> :-)
- 23:52 < echarp> descent is great, I used to love it
- 23:54 < gale> i thouth so :-)
- 23:54 < echarp> amazing game
- 23:55 < gale> did not play it actually
- 23:55 < gale> it was inbetween my configurations
- 23:55 < gale> 386 → P1
- 23:57 < echarp> long time
- 23:58 < gale> lat time you played games, huh?
- 23:58 < echarp> when in a social context
-Log closed mer déc 20 00:00:55 2006
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+1
New discussion
Answer
- 22:56
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19/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061218#parlement
Log opened lun déc 18 00:00:58 2006- 01:36
!nsh (No Such Human) [n=nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #parlement - 09:51
!Irssi: You are now talking in #parlement - 09:51 < echarp> hello hello
- 18:18
!Irssi: You are now talking in #parlement-Log closed mar déc 19 00:00:58 2006
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+1
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Answer
- 01:36
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19/12/06 00:30
I’m just testing this :)
+0
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18/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061217#parlement
Log opened dim déc 17 00:00:58 2006
Log closed lun déc 18 00:00:58 2006-~-~————-~—~——~——————~———-~—~——~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “top-politics” group. To post to this group, send email to top-politics@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to top-politics-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/top-politics?hl=en~————-~——~——~——~———~——~———~—~—-
+1
New discussion
Answer
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17/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061216#parlement
Log opened sam déc 16 00:00:58 2006- 05:56
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!titemagli (titemagli) [n=titemagl@AMontsouris-153-1-39-207.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #parlement - 18:39 < titemagli:#parlement> coucou echarp
-Log closed dim déc 17 00:00:58 2006
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+1
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Answer
- 05:56
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16/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061215#parlement
Log opened ven déc 15 00:00:58 2006- 00:06
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!nsh_ [n=nsh@88.144.51.33] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]-Log closed sam déc 16 00:00:58 2006
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+1
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Answer
- 00:06
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15/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061214#parlement
Log opened jeu déc 14 00:00:58 2006
Log closed ven déc 15 00:00:58 2006-~-~————-~—~——~——————~———-~—~——~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “top-politics” group. To post to this group, send email to top-politics@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to top-politics-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/top-politics?hl=en~————-~——~——~——~———~——~———~—~—-
+1
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14/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061213#parlement
Log opened mer déc 13 00:00:55 2006- 07:18 < urgen:#parlement> http://garalperovitz.com/links.htm
-Log closed jeu déc 14 00:00:58 2006
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+1
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Answer
- 07:18 < urgen:#parlement> http://garalperovitz.com/links.htm
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13/12/06 06:27
[top-politics] 20061212#parlement
Log opened mar déc 12 00:00:55 2006- 18:51 < urgen:#parlement> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
- 18:51 < urgen:#parlement> EVA #1
- 18:51 < urgen:#parlement> TUESDAY, DECEMBER 12
- 18:51 < urgen:#parlement> BEGINS (03:42 PM EST) (20:42 GMT)
- 18:51 < urgen:#parlement> ENDS (09:52 PM EST) (02:52 GMT)
-Log closed mer déc 13 00:00:55 2006
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+1
New discussion
Answer
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07/08/06 06:29
